Jays Audio Dac-2 Dsd Problem

• Dsd Usb Dac

May 28, 2018 - The formats that is used in comparison test is all 16bit / 44.1KHz, not DSD. Best no.1 DAC (cost no objective): Select DAC II Full Option. But I'm assuming there must have been some issues in the chain. Digital: Jay's Audio CDT2 MK2 CD transport, Modified MHDT Labs Balanced Pagoda DAC.

I'm just warning you now - this is probably going to be long. Settle in, if you fancy a journey.Audio journey recap: 2014 I built an audio room downstairs and outfitted it with the best amp, pre, speakers, and digital frontend I could afford. That digital frontend was a custom, audio-only PC outputting i2s into an Aqua La Voce S2 DAC. It was very analytical, as were my tastes back then. I wanted to try and discern the length of a guitar player's fingernail as it glided across the strings, sorta thing. But it wasn't engaging.

It was fun in a way. In late 2014 I bought a ClearAudio Concept with Concept MM cartridge and about 10 vinyl LPs. I was gobsmacked. Music sounded excellent - the microscopic detail wasn't there but I didn't care.

I could crank it, I could air-guitar to it, I felt something when I listened. I hunkered down and I think most know on here I've tried a LOT of analog gear, cleaning routines, alignment methodologies, you name it, I was doing it. And I LOVED it. And spoiler alert: I still do. Analog will always have its place with me. It was an emotional and spiritual enlightenment that showed me a better path, for me, in this hobby.

It revealed to me the sonic character I have to have, and one which I cannot describe in words. It's like my best audio friend, Metallica - Ride the Lightning.

The album that started it all for me, and will always be the most special album in my collection.Anyway, fast forward to late 2018 and I have 600 records, a good-to-great table/cart/arm setup, and have played it through basically every permutation of preamp/line stage you can think of. And that's why I built my room - to experiment and answer the very personal audio questions I had which can only be answered through experience (and a lot of help from this forum). Unfortunately I hit a really bad run of albums I truly wanted, but with vinyl my focus, I either had to settle for really crappy pressings or just not have them at all. I chose option c.) the CD.I've tried with files. I really have.

I have 2 Tb of music as diverse in its genres as it is in its provenance and across Redbook, 24/96, 24/192, DSD, etc. Not anymore at least. It's all I knew when I started out and I ended up falling head over heels for vinyl.So I bought the newest iteration of Schiit Yggdrasil, with the updated analog output board. Again, I tried files into this via USB, PC S/PDIF, and via Sonore Microrendu as a file transport. Still sounds digital to me, still get hash in the upper treble and it snaps me right out of the experience. I can't explain or defend it further, please don't take offense if you don't find this to be the case.

It's ok, and I hope you enjoy whatever you have however you prefer it.I bought a few CDs and a TASCAM CD player because it could feed digital via AES/EBU into the Yggy which is it's 'best' input. I was really shocked at how much I enjoyed it, even against the same disc ripped to my drive with a 100% perfect EAC rip. CD's off the TASCAM sounded smooth but with just enough edge as to make them exciting.

I was getting a wide soundstage, I was getting an 'in the room' feeling off the kick drum of my reference albums. I was happy, and made moreso by the fact that CD is the red-headed stepchild right now so they're plentiful and cheap.I decided to try and take it up a notch. Enter the Jay's Audio CDT2-Mk2. It's from China. It's built like a damn tank, it's a top loader, and its only job is to feed bits via BNC to the Yggy.

Dsd Usb Dac

I haven't directly A/B'd the AES output against BNC but I can say that I have absolutely no reason to. The BNC output of the Jay's far surpasses what I got out of the TASCAM via AES. I could not believe how much better it sounded. To wit:I had in my listening notes that the Mofi SRV - The Sky is Crying, Little Wing, had something weird going on with the highhats, almost like distortion but not quite. The Jay's revealed that what's happening is there are two hits per beat (forgive me, a musician I am not) but the trailing hit is much softer. These blended together oddly on the TASCAM, but are clear through the Jay's.Additionally, it felt like my room grew by a few feet deep.

A/B listening (not blind, sorry) for the TASCAM makes the TASCAM sound flat and 2-dimensional, by comparison. Everything I played sounded bolder, more exciting, better inner detail retrieval, better separation of instruments during absolute chaos even on a mediocre thrash metal recording. It was basically the difference between a good Music Hall turntable with an AT-150MLX versus my current George Merrill table with an AT-Art9 on it. Everything elevated a little bit, most importantly the 'fun factor.'

That I cannot quantify.So I took another step - I bought a Jensen transformer to convert XLR out from the Yggy (to avoid the summing circuit in the Yggy for SE cables) to SE for my preamp. This was also surprising. It's like my music beefed up a bit, hit the gym. Decay felt like it trailed off longer, low level harmonics are easier to pick out, and guitars got a little extra bite to them, which is very important for me so I always listen to me. I want an electric guitar to ride that edge between amazing and overcooked. Don't go too far, but just get me to that edge. The extra gain I can use now also helped.

But, I had no idea what I was in for.I rearranged my room a couple of days ago. Previously I had the 2 x 4 section Kallax situated between my speakers, loaded with vinyl and CDs, with gear on top, and amp situated directly below my preamp.

I hated this, but it was all I thought I could do. I got a bug up my rearend to move that out from the middle and over to the side. I had to get creative but I did it.Oh.

Why didn't I do this before? Now the biggest issue is I made all these changes so close together. I regret that but I'm impatient. I can say without a doubt - Yggy Analog 2 is an incredible DAC for the money. The Jay's transport is absolutely the real deal. The Jensen transformers should come standard with the Yggy.But this room arrangement, I'm flabbergasted. Speaker 'disappearance' is reinforced, stage depth increased again, less-so than with the Jay's but still depth feels a little easier to pick out.

On the right recordings, sound just hangs in space but retains all the color and texture of the tone I came to love when I met vinyl for the first time. But the biggest thing? I need to use roughly half/30% of the volume I did prior to the switch to realize very loud SPL. And as the SPL climbs, the image doesn't collapse down on itself at all. This is true for both Vinyl and CD.

And on Vinyl, I would swear to you that now, surface noise is nowhere near as distracting as it once was. I cannot explain that, but it's an off the cuff observation. I've always felt this room was incredibly revealing of surface noise but I always chalked it up to the quietness of the room itself. It's a vault, in here.Anyway, if you made it this far, wow you must be bored.

But I hope you enjoyed. To sum up:I've found that CD, with the right DAC and media FOR ME, is equally as enjoyable as vinyl.I will run both formats for as long as I can afford toThe Jay's transport is in a weird spot.

$2K for a spinner from China is a tough sell but if you value CDs, have a good DAC, and the resources to acquire one - I think you'll be surprised how well it sounds. It's more than an Oppo 205 or a CEC TL-5, it's much less than an Esoteric. A few extra thoughts. I moved that computer monitor further to the left and less out of the image, and replaced the desk from that pic and it has no covering on it. That was done after everything else. It helps a tiny bit.

Even with the extra room gain I've acquired, it does not sound forward at all. It just gets louder, and sounds better louder, than before.I can look through my listening notes more, this post kinda just came out of nowhere so if there are song specifics anyone is looking for, just ask.

Currently spinning Steve's mastering of Who's Next off a $1 CD and it sounds absolutely sublime. That's hilarious. It's a great track though, for a multitude of reasons.And in case it's not clear from my post - I wouldn't trade any of my previous projects, experiments, lessons, cash outlay, for anything. I feel blessed to even be able to participate on such a journey.I actually had a moment with the Jay's on that Ride the Lightning CD I've had since I was 13 years old. I have the original vinyl to compare against, but the CD absolutely shocked me out of the Jay's.

The TASCAM did a decent job with it, but it did not approach the original vinyl. Through the Jay's, I actually got a few bits of detail out of the still-angry, mean-sounding guitars that actually added to the experience for me.

And you can only imagine how happy I was to hear that. I don't have the musicianship vocabulary to describe it, but it's as if I can better interpret subtle changes in guitar tone which I've just never noticed before, if that makes sense.And, your guidance on the Mofi GAIN synergy with the Schiit MB dacs is absolutely spot on.

There's just something extra with those few discs I have. Very fun to experience. From what I can tell looking at your pics, you now have your speakers a lot closer together (moved the right speaker inwards)? I guess this might account as much for the imaging and soundstage as the move of the vinyl in between? Also, that kallax was sitting more right in between, almost level with the front of your speakers, instead of behind and in between them (which would be preferred). That also might explain the big change you got after moving it.

If it would have been a bit further behind your speakers, the difference might have been a lot less. Nice read!As for the difference between my flac files and my cd's, I guess I'm lucky I don't hear it. Still prefer handling and listening to physical cd albums though. Only use the flac files for shuffling.Do you have a link on that jensen transformer?

From what I can tell looking at your pics, you now have your speakers a lot closer together (moved the right speaker inwards)? I guess this might account as much for the imaging and soundstage as the move of the vinyl in between? Also, that kallax was sitting more right in between, almost level with the front of your speakers, instead of behind and in between them (which would be preferred). That also might explain the big change you got after moving it. If it would have been a bit further behind your speakers, the difference might have been a lot less.

Nice read!As for the difference between my flac files and my cd's, I guess I'm lucky I don't hear it. Still prefer handling and listening to physical cd albums though. Only use the flac files for shuffling.Do you have a link on that jensen transformer? Click to expand.All fair points! The depth of the shelf was a necessity for cable runs. It was pushed back as far as it could be to still allow cable runs AND to allow for access to an outlet behind it (can be seen in the pic where it's moved, with the amp plugged into it).

Because of those reasons, it had to sit out closer to the front of the speakers. But you're right, I do believe it would have had less impact if it were as snug to the back wall as possible.I have not touched the speaker positions though, outside of toeing them out a little bit after the rearrangement. This room is irregular but it doesn't show in the pics. As such, that speaker positioning is absolutely critical; a slight deviation of where I have them collapses the image, doesn't let the speakers 'disappear' and generally just throws it all off.

I was happy I could toe them out a bit though - that helped for sure. What you thought you saw there may have been an effect of the top picture versus the bottom, where the top is a panoramic shot so it throws off the perspective, I think.That said, I do, now, have more flexibility with subwoofer placement. Not sure if you can tell from the top pic but I basically had one place I could stick them. Now I can change them around a lot more if I feel like it.

I do not feel like it right now, as low and midbass in this room feels tuneful, 'fast,' and concussive, but with accurate image placement without any lingering bloat left behind. And it took me forever to achieve that, so I'm happy it stuck around after all the changes!100% agreed on files vs physical, and that is still an area I will tackle but that's for another thread.Jensen transformer (model numbers may appear different, they changed recently just FYI):This was a 'custom' build but they built it quickly and shipped it fast as well. I think it was $310 shipped or so. Much cheaper than a new preamp!- I plan on playing with that a little this week. I have two absorption panels I built that are currently unused, and a few diffusion options set to arrive in the next couple days that I'll play around with. As I understand it, diffusion in a small room is a very tricky play, so no guarantees it will work out. I also sit really close to the back wall so I have a large absorption panel there now, and will play with diffusion on that surface as well.

Should be fun! Love your infectious enthusiasm Todd!A local dealer resides in a re-purposed house with multiple rooms and systems, one is identical to the size of yours with the door in the same position along the shorter back wall. Their system is arranged 90-degrees from yours with the speakers and system facing the wall with the door. They have a narrow vertical system rack in the center with subs in each back corner behind the main speakers. The main speakers are 2-feet from either sidewall (perfectly centered) and slightly toed in, back of the speakers are 3-feet from the wall behind them.Listening position is centered and away from the wall with the door.

Nothing is on the side walls except diffusors at the first reflection points.It sounds absolutely spectacular- especially the stage depth behind the speakers given that they are so far from the wall. They do have some vertical absorber panels behind the subs.I believe you could achieve this in your room if you placed all of your media vertically stacked along the wall with the door, listening chair just in front of the media wall.Not sure what to do with the desk- possibly a low boy desk directly in front of the chair or maybe a narrow desk cub integrated with the media racks.If you're feeling ambitious, I recommend you try this at some point. This layout made every set of speakers the dealer brought in for demo sound their absolute best- guess they know what they' re doing. Funny enough that layout is how I had the system set up when I initially put everything together. I'm actually closer now to being able to try that again soon, but for now, I have the following challenges the room pictured above does not:I have a tower PC and a large 34' Ultrawide monitor in my room. Need to find a way to manage that bit first.

I intend to solve that with my current layout (thinking mobile monitor cart, for lack of a better term) and move back to more of a listening chair setup, and ditch the desk.My room has an angled door. It's at my back-right in my current setup, pictured above in your post it would be back-left corner. It mucks with the image pretty severely but the current long-wall layout seems to handle it best.The biggest challenge I had in the short-wall layout was sub placement. Now, I've learned a lot about all that since moving to the long wall layout so I may be able to solve that now but holy cow I'm not sure I want to undo all that effort I couldn't achieve, before, the punch and concussiveness I have today, and not have excessive bloat. The way I have it today, it feels like I have very large floorstanders, without subs. If I could replicate that on the short wall, I do agree image depth improves.However, I had my old, DIY 3-ways in that old layout and they were MUCH more picky about placement in the room than the Dynaudios are and by extension, were more difficult to integrate subs with. The Dyns sounded better than the DIYs by just setting them randomly in the room, not dialed in, so that would definitely come into play if I rotated.I just love the amount of paths we all can take to what ends up being our temporary final destination.

Because believe you me, this isn't the end of the road for my journey, more like a new beginning. A new high bar that I seek to blow past. I honestly didn't know that this room could do what it's doing today. So I tried putting an absorber right in the middle of the front wall and I didn't really like it it kind of split the room in two. I'm working on trying two additional absorbers on the back wall and then when I get the diffusers, replace the largest absorber on the back wall with a diffuser and keep the two smaller absorption panels and experiment with diffusion on the front wall.And all I'm doing here is playing and observing changes. I don't have a specific goal or 'thing' I'm trying to fix.

Just exploring, to be clear. Click to expand.FWIW, here's my observations so far:It's absolutely a case by case basis for me, whether I prefer vinyl or CD. And most of those comparisons are based on early CD 'flat transfers' against early or first pressing vinyl. It gets much more murky and apples/oranges when a remaster such as DCC, Mofi, etc. Are involved, from either side.Take DSOTM for example - the original CDs used copies of the original master tape (someone correct me if I get this wrong).

So that's a strike against it while I can compare it to a 1.5 'crossover' vinyl pressing which uses the original tape. Mofi's version was the first digital version to use the original tapes, but it's been remastered. It's really good IMO, but not worth comparing in this sense.I'd say generally, any AAA analog recording, which is an early pressing on decent vinyl and from the country of origin when possible (e.g. UK Floyd pressings), I prefer vinyl. But I have a bunch of those on CD as well and while I may prefer vinyl, the CD is not thoroughly trounced. It's a much closer fight than I'd have expected and frankly I'd be completely happy with either.

It's just nice to have options, really.Since I enjoy mostly hard rock and metal from 1985 on, there is a lot of vinyl that is just head and shoulders better than what was put on CD, especially about 1998-present.Even DDD vinyl can better a CD, due to vinyl-specific mastering that isn't brickwalled.Generally speaking, I find CD to be a tiny bit more forward, overall. That's not a bad thing. I also feel they have more energy in the mid-upper treble area but I would not call them bright or 'cold.'

I just flipped on some records two nights ago since I've been going nuts with CD lately, and I generally felt like it's still excellent, it sounds a bit rolled off but keep in mind, that could be a host of reasons, not just the mechanical aspects or limitations of the format.I will say the Yggdrasil Analog 2 is really the secret sauce in all this. Schiit gets a lot of, well, schiit from the objective crowd over measurements (which are often 'poor' outside the audible range but I digress.) but it is obviously very revealing as it has had no issue demonstrating differences between input sounds (AES vs Coax from my TASCAM), or transport differences (TASCAM vs Jay's) or differences in output (XLR vs Single Ended).

It's resolving, airy, warm but not tonally, I only mean it never imparts fatigue, even at ridiculous volume levels. Musical energy has sufficient bite without sounding overcooked or 'fake.'

And, well, it immediately reminded me of vinyl in many ways, mostly due to the above attributes. The bass response out of it is absolutely addicting, as well.

I have read that the newest Gungnir MBs get you about 95% of the way there for a significant savings, and are even more of a 'rocker' DAC so that's cool.Damn, I'm wordy. Sorry, this got a lot longer than I intended.

Click to expand.Just last night I pulled the left speaker toward me about 1.5' and added a couple absorption panels to the back wall, basically flanking me on both sides. The rear wall treatment smoothed out a 'hot' midrange that I only noticed on two songs, didn't seem to diminish any others. It was a particular frequency that I found on two orchestral works that, at volume, really overwhelmed the room. With just that change, it's still a bit hot but in a dynamic way, not an unpleasant one.The left speaker change introduces relative symmetry to my speaker placement. I've always found the best sound is with the left channel pushed back a bit.

But what this new player has shown me is a more clear image and on the right recordings, the image was shifted a little. Where it should be like this (I'm the dot in the middle):.I was hearing this:-.Really hard to depict that with dashes and periods but there you go. Left channel was slightly recessed and the right channel slightly forward.

Just a smidge out of balance that could easily be disregarded but I decided to try and fix it, and it feels like I did.I had an absolutely jawdropping last song of the night last night on my reference track, the one I use to test any significant change to subwoofer placement, speaker placement, or subwoofer phase/crossover settings. And it blew me away. But, I'm withholding judgment as the special sauce and great feelings were flowing really well at 1 am and I don't want to attribute that moment of clarity to anything beyond just a perfect storm of happiness, until I can listen to some other references first. One final thought - I generally multitask when listening. I participate here and on a couple audio or food-related FB groups and it's kinda my online social time.

For the most part, I'm content to rock out and listen while I do other things. I'm still focusing on the music, but at about 70-80%, not 100%. I've had more 'you need to face the stereo' moments with this new DAC and transport than I have in a very long time. Lifelike imaging, chaotic passages that are actually unraveled in a natural, intelligible way, vocals I can understand perfectly amidst a storm of instruments behind them where I've never really had that before.

It's way cool.And again, this is not me saying digital vinyl, but on a case by case basis, Redbook kicks all kinds of ass. Click to expand.We're on the same page, actually, and I'm exploring some options along those lines.

The big issue is the monitor, but I think they make 'carts' that I can mount the monitor too. That would be nice so I could shut it off and move it totally out of the way. It's sitting on an end table right now, and I'd need that end table if I get rid of the desk, so I have to find something to place the monitor on, to be clear.That desk is very new; I had been using a really sturdy folding table, with a thick drape over it for reflection purposes. I used to have the monitor on the work surface so getting it out of the room for experimentation purposes really wasn't an option, but it is something I can try with a little effort now. I have played with various heights of the desk, since it's adjustable, and that has helped a little too (lowering the desk raised the image in front of me a little bit). So I'm not sure if it's hurting or helping at this point, but removing it entirely is the next step.

Then I'd go back to where I started, with an actual listening chair, instead of an office chair (which the height adjustment on the office chair cannot be overstated in value!).So in all, I agree with you, it's probably the biggest question mark I have at this point. Had a buddy stop by who knows about this kind of stuff and got some really nice, positive feedback about what I have going on in my room these days. There were times I saw him shake his head, chuckle, and smile, then stop the track because he'd heard enough (and he brought a bunch, we listened for 2 hours or so). He has a really nice system in a dedicated room as well and is currently trying to find his forever speakerHe did point out something and he was correct, the left side of my room was too dead, so we pulled the last wall-hanging absorption panel off and it helped. Didn't fix it, because that side also has the floor-ceiling bass trap on it so I've got some things to play with if I want.

But his ear is sharp, so I really valued a second set of ears to either validate and/or critique what I have. A mutual friend of ours will hopefully stop by soon but his tastes and mine are pretty far apart, and he's. Well he's brutally honest. I'm at a point though where if someone doesn't like it, that's ok. I really, really do.And as a bonus, I got to hear some music that I truly enjoyed, but also sounded fantastic, so those are on the wantlist now as well. I got the impression that he enjoyed the sound of the Yggdrasil and was happy with the image and depth in front of him.

I prefer more bass than he does but even though I have more, he remarked it was integrated well between the subs and the mains, or at least that's what I inferred. He didn't offer a whole lot of direct observations but I get it. Figured I'd update this a little. I continue to be impressed, and feel like with any disc I throw in, both the room, the speaker setup, and the equipment are giving me the best portrayal of that material possible.

It's incredibly fun. But, it's not without its revelations of a reverse sort.So far, Rush and especially early Led Zeppelin - I've tried a few flavors of Zep and only some early Rush CD pressings and neither have so far lived up to my feelings of how they sound on vinyl.This actually makes me very happy. I never went down this path to replace analog. And while I've found plenty that I can get on CD for a buck or two and sell the expensive vinyl copy, that's not at all universally true.Oh and Lee Rittenour is a frickin hoot to play on this system!